Author | Comment | Bill Sherwood Registered User (4/2/01 9:37:50 pm) Reply | Edit
 | The rules for the race with Smuggler The Rules
- Ten complete laps, lowest total elapsed time wins.
- Standing start to begin the laps.
- The owners of the respective cars must drive them in said competition.
- The track is to be Lakeside, located at Dakabin, south-east Queensland.
- The said competition will not be run in the rain.
- Bill Sherwood's car is to be the Sports 1300, log booked 'Saidor 166S', powered by a 1300cc twin Cam Suzuki, completely complying with the CAMS Sports 1300 Group 2C rules.
- Smuggler's car is to be AE-92 4AGE 'blacktop' turbo powered road car. It must be currently road registered.
- Bill Sherwood's car must use the oldest set of tyres that are owned by him.
- Smuggler's car's tyres are free, ie, he can use anything he likes.
- Neither car is allowed to use any performance boosting substance, such as nitrous oxide, etc.
- An agreed neutral party shall scrutineer the cars for compliance with these rules.
- The winner cannot be determined until both cars start the race.
- If Bill Sherwood wins, then he will donate $10,000 to a good charity. (or charaties)
- If Smuggler wins, he will donate $500 to a good charity.
- The loser will *never* come back to this forum, under any conditions.
Okay, sit back and have a look at this;
- My car weighs (with driver) 500kgs. Smuggler's car (with driver) should weigh 1120kgs. My car makes 110hp at the wheels, and Smuggler's car should make at least 250hp at the wheels. Working the numbers, my car comes out to 500/110 = 4.54kg/hp. Smuggler's car works out to 4.56kg/hp, so they are very even in that respect. If he gets any more power than that, then it's to his advantage. I can't get more than another 1 or 2 hp out of mine. Smuggler's torque, however, will be vastly more than mine even in proportion because of the turbo 4AGE.
- However, my car tops out at 206kph. (550mm dia rears, 4.111:1 diff, 1:1 top gear, 8000rpm limiter) Smuggler's car should top out more like ~265kph. (590mm dia fronts, 4.53:1 diff, 0.72:1 top gear, rather high rev limit) This is a big advantage at Lakeside, as most of the passing is done at the end of the two straights, (Karuselle & Hungry) so a good top speed is essential. Lakeside is the second fastest average speed track in Australia.
- I am using two & a bit year old Dunlop racing tyres. Old racing tyres, especially the Japanese Formula 2 Dunlops as I use take a long time to get up to temperature and never stick as well as new tyres. It's the oldest set of tyres that I have, and the reason for this is to reduce the grip advantage I have. Smuggler can use whatever tyres he likes.
That's as even as I can make it without any more information. I'm willing to make some further minor changes though.
The reason I'm using my racing car instead of my road car is that a short while ago I got a message fromt my company that instead of travelling back through to UK to get to Australia they now have me ferrying a 747 to China. I'll be heading back home from there, and so I'm not going to be able to pick up the pistons for the new 4AGE. I have also changed my mind about the con-rods I'm using in the engine, and will be getting a set sent from the US; they won't be sent until I send over a bank cheque for them, then there's another few weeks until they arrive in Aus. Also, the guy that was prepping the car's body shell for me has got a new job and so that's not progressing at all now. (While I was away, he was going to strip it for me back to a bare shell, take all the sound proofing out, etc, makes the mods to the rear suspension that I detailed, then get it painted again, then fit a roll cage)
Since pretty much everything to do with the road car has turned excremental, it makes more sense to use the racer with the rules above.
Speaking of the racer, it is getting a brand new four-spider diff in it that won't be run until the race day. I need to do some slow laps in it first to see how it feels, then dump the oil to check for contaminants, then put the proper synthetic oil back in. If all that works okay then the car will be ready to race. I will also not be doing a racing start.
I should be back in Aus in about two weeks or so, and fingers crossed leaving around the end of the first week in May. I am also hoping to traveling to Melbourne for an interview for a new job in that period but I don't know exactly when yet.
That's the available time frame.
Home page here
| CelicaDRIFTER  Registered User (4/2/01 10:20:53 pm) Reply
 | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler LETS GET IT ON!
RICHARD-RA40('80 TOYOTA CELICA )AUTOCROSS/ROAD RACE/DRIIIIIIFT!
| gravel mk2 Registered User (4/2/01 10:35:32 pm) Reply | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler bill you can't run a sports car against a road car....period why don't you wait till your ae86 is ready
the sports car will be to fast even if you use half throttle matey
| MechaMegloManiac Registered User (4/3/01 1:57:00 am) Reply | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler I'm speechless,where do I start?? I thought it was meant to be a comparo of "builder,driver,chassis" calibre,AE92V'sAE86
20V V's 16V ? I have never even been to the curcuit he seems to know better than the head of his own prick,but I simply cannot grasp,that this IS CLUB 4AGE!!!!4AGE!!!and he's challenging me with a...Suzuki powerplant..WTF?? I'm sorry,but,I'm deflated,is there any1 else,that can see this
as being as fraudulent as I can? I'll wait on some other MEMBER responces,B4 I continue,MRKWIK,what do you suggest I do? I simply have a road car? I wanted a race also?what would you do in my position?
P.S,This is another piece of evidence regarding Bills ignorance,I have stated numerous times that Iam building 2 engines,that my BLACKTOP shall remain N/A. Smuggla.
| mykool2000 Registered User (4/3/01 1:58:54 am) Reply
 | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler For christ`s sake get this over with... its wearing thin.
just my 2c
mike
| mykool2000 Registered User (4/3/01 2:01:18 am) Reply
 | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler And yes smuggs I agree as it is poor bringing a suzuki
to a toyota showdown.
mike
| Bill Sherwood Registered User (4/3/01 2:57:52 am) Reply | Edit
 | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler As I said, "I'm willing to make some further minor changes though."
How about I do eleven laps and you do ten? On the computer simulation I get beaten every time, but I reckon it'll be closer than that.
The time to get my road car ready I've already written, and it's obvious that it's going to be months away. I don't want to wait, nor do many other people here that also want to get this over and done with.
A car is a car to me, it doesn't matter if it's got a 4AGE, an SR-20, or whatever. It's my car and it's my experience in it. The same would apply for my road car.
You also have clearly and repeatedly said that you were building a turbo engine for the challenge, so that is what I based the rules on.
Let's just get this thing done!
Home page here
| DaPrez Toymods Registered User (4/3/01 6:18:51 am) Reply | awesome Sounds like a fair deal. If i was smuggs i would be taking my chances. From what i hear, smugg's car is the fastest fwd never to be seen in aus... i'd like to witness this race even if it is just to see this car race. Must be awesome.
Anyhow... sounds all fair and square and i'll make the trip to see the race.
Sent me any jpegs of your car yet smuggs?? (ive seen bills)
Luke
| Corolla90  Registered User (4/3/01 6:42:04 am) Reply
 | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler This is really getting out of hand. As I recall, this race was suppose to be between a AE86 (Bill) and a ae92(Smuggs). Bill, you've accused Smuggla before about changing the rules hence you do the same. This is club 4ag and it was supposed to be a race between 4ag's. You can't race a road car against a race prepped extra light sports car. No matter what Bill, you will have the upper hand. It isn't fair. You guys have 2 choices...
- You wait until Bill finishes his car
- You both keep your money, forget about that damn race
and move on
I think we all know that this race will never happen, no matter what. I'm REALLY starting to suspect you guys. I'm starting to suspect that Bill and Smuggs are only one guy with a major personality problem. Or that this Bill vs. Smuggla thing is just a publicity stunt to attract people. Don't get me wrong guys (Bill and smuggs), that's the impression we all get. I mean come on, this has gone beyond ridiculous. I know that Bill exists because I've seen him. Smuggs, well, stop hiding. Let us see you. You must have a website somewhere. Show us your car, whatever, give us hope! Anyways....I don't even know why I'm writing this...gee
Corolla90
1985 AE86 coupe GT-S
1990 AE92 coupe GT-S
| 2idiots Unregistered User (4/3/01 6:43:50 am) Reply | crack me up Both of you are funny. Bill is an idiot who has no brain. SMUGGLER is stupid and helpless. Who ever loses will have to donate money to charity. Who ever wins, both of you are still losers. There is no meaning in this race. Not about who builts a better 4age or driving skills. It is so obvious that, Bill is cheating on SMUGGLER. A formula Renault has only 150hp but can outrun a Diabro on a track. Plus, this is a track you are familar with.
| ste Unregistered User (4/3/01 8:29:13 am) Reply | screw it it should be 4ag against 4ag. it's dragged on long enough. nobody cares anymore. or at least i don't. besides i agree with some other people, bill, you've set it up to your advantage by having a lightweight racecar against a road registered car on a track that you're more familiar with.
ste
| rallyracer88 Registered User (4/3/01 9:01:23 am) Reply | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler Originally I couldn't care less about the race, but I have to say, I don't really think that this is fair to Smuggla. A purpose built racecar will destroy any roadcar on a track. I think you guys should just wait 'til the ae86 is ready. Why is everyone in such a rush to see this go down anyway? If you guys are going to race - better do it right. Bill: I'm curious as to why you are making it your sole mission to banish Smuggla from this board, lately I don't see Smuggla trying to instigate anything while you still seem to bare a grudge.
| gat0detruen0  Registered User (4/3/01 10:01:46 am) Reply | Maybe if we look at it from a distance, we can.. ...get a new perspective on this whole thing. All of the following has been taken from the posts above mine:
-Originally I couldn't care less about the race...
-..., but I have to say, nobody cares anymore.
-I mean come on, this has gone beyond ridiculous...
- You both keep your money, forget about that damn race and move on.
-This is really getting out of hand.
-Let's just get this thing done!
-For christ`s sake get this over with... its wearing thin.
-WTF??
Maybe you guys should just agree to disagree and to despise each other and stop all of the name calling. Fresh start? I'm sure both of you fellows have much more important things to do. Hell, I CAN'T build an engine and I have tons of other stuff to do.
What do you say guys? Can we all play nice together???
-gat0
| Witness Unregistered User (4/3/01 3:04:31 pm) Reply | Unbelievable! Well Bill,I think you have outdone yourself this time,
those rules are just plain stupid,I recall the way you carried on when Smuggla asked for a video of you,why isnt that part of the rules,I think he was right,you know nothing apart from what you read or are told.All you say is your program says this or that.The worst part is,you have let every one here down,it was supposed to be a road registered corolla race,it's just rediculous now.I have said it before,I hope he beats you,your allready running scared. Smuggla.
| Witness Unregistered User (4/3/01 3:10:24 pm) Reply | continued.. sorry,that last post went weird,I say smuggla was going to race before and you have done this,you just want attention.
| Dissapointedhachi Unregistered User (4/3/01 3:14:35 pm) Reply | dang.. Bill has a Suzuki engine? why is he here?
Bruce.
| GL86 Unregistered User (4/3/01 4:03:39 pm) Reply | *sigh* C'mon guys...
I'm not taking sides here, but seriously, Bill has his reasons. I know that Bill might not be 100% justified in bending the rules abit, but he gave explanations on why he chose to do that. We should have just left it when GRAVEL MK2 said:
"bill you can't run a sports car against a road car....period why don't you wait till your ae86 is ready the sports car will be to fast even if you use half throttle matey "
As for my thoughts, I think Bill should just wait till he's done his AE86. I think it would be a much honourable and exciting race, AE86 Vs. AE92, FWD vs. RWD, 20V vs. 16V, Forced induction Vs. NA... WHAT MORE CAN WE ASK FOR?! This is a true battle between the things we debate all the time on this board. I would love to see this race happen, but unfortunately I live in Canada. Maybe the video idea would not be bad, I would pay to see something like that.
Also, another thing... I think this should not be a race to kick whoever off the board, or wager hard earned money. This is a perfect chance to prove both Bill and Smuggla's ability to tune, race and show TRUE SPORTSMANSHIP! We are all on the same boat when we come to this msg board, we all love our cars.
GL86
| Bill Sherwood Registered User (4/3/01 8:04:25 pm) Reply | Edit
 | Re: *sigh* Okay, once again for the reading impaired -
- My road car will not be ready for a few months to come at least. I'm not in Australia for more than a few weeks at a time, so it makes it very difficult to get any series work done on it, period.
- The racer is ready right now, and suitably handicapped to be even I can't see why it wouldn't be a fair race.
- I could even go to Willowbank, which I've never raced at before so that would be make thing even with regard to the track familiarity.
- I still can't see what the problem is with using a different type of engine, as it's the prepartion that's part of the equation, so what does it matter what type of engine it is? An engine is a bloody engine in that respect.
- It's not me that keeps changing the rules, I only have to keep re-writing them because Smuggler first agrees to them, then changes his aledged mind. Yet again I'm going to have to come up with another set of rules because we're both (probably) going to be using 4AGE's and road cars.
If you all want me to run a 4AGE then that's fine, I'm quite happy to do it, but you're going to have to wait months. I assumed a few things when writing the rules.
- You all wanted this finished ASAP.
- Smuggler, with his total lack of knowledge of physics would take it up. He's about as bright as a wet birthday candle, so I thought I'd give it a try anyway.
Home page here
| Bill Sherwood Registered User (4/3/01 8:32:23 pm) Reply | Edit
 | Re: *sigh* Just having a quick proof read of the above, and got a big laugh.
Have a look at the post made by 'Witness'. It's Idiot boy™ posting under another name to get attention!
Proves a few things -
- He CAN write like a semi-normal person if he wants
- He's too stupid to NOT sign his name at the end of the fake post.
- What other lies and fake persona's has he posted under here?
If that's his attitude, then he's lost already.
Multiple 's.
Home page here
| MR KWIK Registered User (4/3/01 9:00:41 pm) Reply | Re: *sigh* from me too Well smuggla,since you asked what I would do...
Both cars N/A(smuggla,you did say your blacktop will be n/a)
Both cars 4a based engines(block & head),any management,any carbs,any ign,any exhaust,porting,valves,cams,etc...do what you want just start with a Toyota block & head
Both cars should use at least the same type tire.
Tire size is free(they should fit under the fenders)
Cars should be same weight with driver
No money involved(money can't buy things like a reputation or brains for that matter, and that's what is really on the line here.Who can build the better engine/car and who can drive it)
Give each other a little time 3 months(maybe 4?)
I'm all too familiar with projects,money & lack of time
I wish I could be there,not just to watch(I'd like to race ya both!)
If ya still feel the need to do so I'm accepting donations
Mr Kwik Edited by: MR KWIK at: 4/3/01 9:09:04 pm
| Witness Unregistered User (4/3/01 9:19:07 pm) Reply | Wrong Bill. No Bill,your wrong on that,as I was writing that post my pc went buggy.I stated that in the post underneath,
I was the one who qeustioned you on your perfect engine record,we have actually met in the past,I had nothing against you,untill you posted that stupidity above,I dont want to choose sides,but I am wondering what will happen to the person you take dislike to after smuggla?I will now log on.
| MR KWIK Registered User (4/3/01 9:25:09 pm) Reply | Re: Right Bill!!!!!! Oh c'mon now smuggla,admit it!
You can tell simply by the language
Mr Kwik
| Vic327 Registered User (4/3/01 9:27:58 pm) Reply | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler It sure doesn't sound like a fair race even with the old tires on the 1300. I think you should wait or flip a coin and let the winner of the toss choose which car they'll drive if the vehicles are so closely matched.
| kkingkai Registered User (4/3/01 10:03:58 pm) Reply | Witness=Smuggla Hey Bill, you should just bring your car(ae86) the way it is. Odds are.. He won't show up. I have to amit, lately Smuggla aka "pu55yboydownunder tm" hasn't started any BS on this forum.
P.S. I side with Mrkwik, Witness is Smuggla-the writting is so much alike.
kkingkai
| MechaMegloManiac Registered User (4/4/01 12:38:45 am) Reply | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler Sorry to dissapoint you,but I was well and truely at work by the time on those posts,just another attempt by Bill to throw the attention from the garbage he posted,KINKOKHED,
what would you know fool,take a look at your attempt at english...I cant believe he has put so much effort into changing so much.
I stated I would pay a charity upon loss as he obviously doesnt need it,Bill,that 10grand is mine buddy,you put it up,you made the bet,you'll pay me that money,I'll pay a charity $500,it's the only reason I'm giving you the time of day,I need that money mate,you think I'm going to risk my personal wellbeing and expensive asset for nothing? WRONG
got that? the only reason I'm considering this is the money,
you try a scammy trick like that again,I'll smash you extra hard when we meet,the only way out now is to race,and pay up,if you lose,you hold out on me,you'll be very sorry,you really think I'd believe you? your pathetic,you cant build an engine,you think making it 10laps my engine will break??
This engine wont break,no chance,your a jerk mate,taking on a rookie,your pittifull...I'll set the rules now tosspot,you
have had 2 goes at it.I just cant get over that garbage you came up with,I'm supposed to race YOUR engine,I even wanted a video,and you turn it like that?? and then say you think I'm so stupid I would have gone for it?your the twit that wrote it... Smuggla.
| mykool2000 Registered User (4/4/01 1:28:55 am) Reply
 | Re: The rules for the race with Smuggler I agree with smuggs its time to party!! this few months till finish date sound familiar?? didn`t you say it was a few months away a few months ago??
but.. I could be wrong?
who cares...may the best man win.
mike
| witness2 Unregistered User (4/4/01 1:44:46 am) Reply | AE86 vs AE92 I wonder what happened to Bill's AE86? Maybe it has no chance of beating Smug's AE92. This race is nonsense unless it is AE86 vs AE92 or AE101. The rules must be fair for both of them, which must be both cars are equal in every term (registered, hp, weight,... and no advanage to anyone side). And Smug and Bill will have to agree on a track, not just Bill.
I am also a witness in this race. I don't think Bill or anybody will need who I am. I just want to make sure this race is fair to both parties.
| Bill Sherwood Registered User (4/4/01 2:19:15 am) Reply | Edit
 | Re: AE86 vs AE92 Once again guys, this is why it's going to take another few months to get my car ready. Please read it and let it sink in!
"I got a message fromt my company that instead of travelling back through to UK to get to Australia they now have me ferrying a 747 to China. I'll be heading back home from there, and so I'm not going to be able to pick up the pistons for the new 4AGE. I have also changed my mind about the con-rods I'm using in the engine, and will be getting a set sent from the US; they won't be sent until I send over a bank cheque for them, then there's another few weeks until they arrive in Aus. Also, the guy that was prepping the car's body shell for me has got a new job and so that's not progressing at all now. (While I was away, he was going to strip it for me back to a bare shell, take all the sound proofing out, etc, makes the mods to the rear suspension that I detailed, then get it painted again, then fit a roll cage)
Since pretty much everything to do with the road car has turned excremental"
After I do of that, I then have to build the engine then run it in, test it, and then make any changes to it if need be.
Again, please pay attention - I only spend a few weeks every few months in Australia. The car will not spontaneously build itself, so it's going to take time.
At the moment the car is a fairly gutted shell. The engine is still in lots of pieces, I don't have the pistons yet, and so on.
I don't go on the track with any half-arsed efforts, and will not be doing so now. I will be putting the car together, but only as I have time.
Sorry, but that's the way it is. If you don't like it, then you've probably already voiced your displeasure so no need to do it again.
Home page here
| Bill Sherwood Registered User (4/4/01 2:32:22 am) Reply | Edit
 | Re: AE86 vs AE92 I half like Mr Kwik's rules, though they need a little more definition.
However I will not agree to making the cars equal weight. The engine I'm building for my car is not the grunter engine, only the 200hp odd engine. If Smuggler's engine is as good as what he imagines it to be, then it should have some more than that. Unless you stick the cars on a dyno then there's no way to match the power to weight ratio's. (which I tried to do at the top of this tread, giving reasonably accurate numbers to back it up)
Another thing that's going to happen that will no doubt cause Smuggler to have a huge hissy-fit is my car. People keep on saying "AE-86", and I keep on saying "my road car". How about you take a look to see how many 4AGE powered road cars I have? There is no negotiation on this either.
I also will not be making any videos on the engine going together. I will agree to a mutually agreed third party watching though.
I really don't like arguing on the forum and want it to stop. I would suggest that perhaps until both our cars are ready that Moto-P do an IP ban on both of us. Once our cars are ready, then we will email Moto-p who will then let us back on the forum to organise a date. I do not need to be banned as such though, as I would give my word not to return and stick by it. Smuggler has a history of using fake names here, so he will need an IP ban.
I seriously doubt that Smuggler will show to any race though, because if he does then his identity will be revealed. People will then know who he is and where he lives. He'll have to be responsible for his actions, most of which consists of pissing people off.
Home page here
Edited by: Bill Sherwood at: 4/4/01 4:16:22 am
| kkingkai Registered User (4/4/01 10:11:47 am) Reply | Re: smuggl-alot-bs
Speak english, can't understand all your mumbo jumbo. Is that Australian slang or your just making words up like Don King (heavyweight boxing promoter) Idiot.. Idiot...
What are you going to do if Bill doesn't pay?.... your not going to do @#%$ but cry like a two dollar hole... FUUUc**king coward. Don't make threats on this Board, Biatch.
Kkingkai
| danielvieway Registered User (4/6/01 6:39:36 am) Reply | Billy's money Bill I'll be heavily disappointed that, if in the unlikely case you loose, the 10,000 is deposited in the grubby little hand of idiot boy. Please ensure that a final rule stipulates that this money is to go to a worthwhile charity.
I would hate to think that such a sum was to go into attempting to unsuccessfully prove common physical laws incorrect.
Daniel.
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